Survival Of The Fittest

Yugi do you have any serious explanation or defense of your actions on Day one

Polybius - Hopped on a bandwagon with momentum without much justification. Could easily be read as trying to cover their tracks by throwing Decoy under the bus.

If I was scum I would've pushed the Jace vote when it was popular. Unless all three of us were scum, anyway.

Slam wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:27 pm tried to move attention to a relatively meaningless area (who was hesistant to stop memeing),

because looking at the people who were almost certainly doing what scum would've wanted to do the first day phase (waste the phase by messing around and causing a no lynch when the climate was incredibly unwilling to step up and start playing the game) is certainly meaningless, yes

And for the record, I didn't object to decoy getting votes, I was objecting to decoy getting votes, if that makes sense. I didn't really have any strong feelings about decoy one way or the other (until his final post, which I would've noted had I been awake at the time), I was just very sure that there were scum on the (at-the-time) decoy wagon given just how many people decided to vote for a name randomly drawn out of a hat.

Yugi wrote:randomly drawn out of a hat

I'm pretty sure the intent of weeding out inactive members was pretty clear.

Yugikun wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:52 pm for a name randomly drawn out of a hat.

correction: for the name of a random inactive drawn out of a hat

Of the inactives at the time, the ones that come to mind are Toben, Jace, and Decoy.

Toben is set apart because he usually has some level of insight that's worth keeping around at least for a little while. There was something of a collective decision to safeguard him (which, again, I'm side-eyeing a little) which takes him out of the pool of viable targets.

Jace was considered, and I pressed him on his inactivity (and vote for myself) for a bit, but he made significantly more of an effort once called out and did some newbieish things that took him out of consideration.

This left decoy, who played defensive without offering any kind of meaningful contribution or explanation of his inactivity.

It's pretty strange to say we picked him from a hat when the process of elimination is this easy to follow.

I wished I had been able to start earlier so I could throw in a vore joke but it's kinda not the time for that now, still atleast I can follow along other's reads since I'm too unimaginative for that > _ <

I give any early joiners on the lynch a town pass because even saying that there's one huge staff faction, it's still realllly risky to lynch even a goon, since there's no chat for scum yet to discuss who'll take one for the team. But throwing them under the bus is less sus at the end, better then people going like 'WHY DIDNT YOU JOIN"

Also, MW, if you're away or town, don't post too quickly, it sounds less like a 'sorry I was quiet' and more like you WERE lurking around and added in a post for some reason. Still, I DO think the reads were alright, but it's not unlynchable status

Also I have my eyes on Cactus but idk how to read just a handler's post ina thread rn so I won't say my reasoning here yet

(To reply to MS, yeah, my personal reasoning was that Decoy was acting extremely defensive and picking an easier target)

MethodicalSlacker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:08 am Of the inactives at the time, the ones that come to mind are Toben, Jace, and Decoy.

Toben is set apart because he usually has some level of insight that's worth keeping around at least for a little while. There was something of a collective decision to safeguard him (which, again, I'm side-eyeing a little) which takes him out of the pool of viable targets.

Jace was considered, and I pressed him on his inactivity (and vote for myself) for a bit, but he made significantly more of an effort once called out and did some newbieish things that took him out of consideration.

This left decoy, who played defensive without offering any kind of meaningful contribution or explanation of his inactivity.

It's pretty strange to say we picked him from a hat when the process of elimination is this easy to follow.

it's pretty strange that you say there were three inactives when, at that time, there were five, arguably six inactives in total (toben, jace, decoy, poly, slam, arguably deamon) at that point, and at the time of the initial decoy push (the thing I wasn't big on) the only thing jace had contributed was a joke post

its also pretty strange how you insist that decoy's name wasn't drawn out of a hat when fenris, per their testimony, literally flipped a coin to determine who to vote for

hello im still at work so i cant say a lot!

to clarify i did in fact literally flip a coin between jace and decoy because they were the not-toben people who has posted The Least. toben excluded for reasons ms has already figured out. that said by the time of the second decoy vote there was reasoning behind it! there kinda wasnt the first time which is why i was willing to swap to jace until he started talking lmao

To restate: I was only specifically not down for the first decoy train. Had I been awake while the second train had happened I would've been considerably more okay with it, given his last post.

I'll admit Poly also counts but Dea and Slam were definitely not inactive at that stretch. They were less active than the rest of us, probably owing to time difference at least a little bit. If your problem was with the first push then I can see that a little more but what is egregious to you just doesn't seem that bad to me.

I think your defense is pretty good though. Town points for you in my book.

(as in its a well considered opinion)

Slam wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:27 pm Time for some ANALYSIS!

[+] Decoy Lynch Step by Step

Fen - Started it off. Not Not Suspicious by itself, but considering they also had the option for Jace (whose status is unconfirmed but we know Decoys), earns some town points to me.
Zetsu - Jumped on despite thinking lynching inactives was a waste of time. Bit iffy.
Emprexx Plush - Lolcorpse
MethodicalSlacker - Same as above basically. Also iffy.
dmboogie - Didn't even say how they felt about it, just that they didn't want every lunch to be a lurker lunch. Iffier still!
Cactus - Comes along and says let Decoy defend themselves. Not an inherently scummy thing to do.
Irina Ivanov - Flip flopped on whether lynching inactives was a good idea but also wanted to give Decoy a chance to read. My jimmies are actually a bit rustled here.
Dmboogie - Later reiterated that inactivity is bad and should be punished, but kind of pointless after the vote rather than during.
MethodicalSlacker - Pushes the vote after decoy says what was going on and FingerSuspects Fen. I consider this a town move, as the scum option would be to just stay silent let it ride out.
Yugikun - Defends decoy on the basis that decoy's name was picked out of a hat. Suggests focusing on shitposters instead. He's not wrong, but it feels a bit like a distraction tactic to me. Some scumreading.
Yugi - then starts flinging suspicion at MS
Goose - Says to lay off decoy cause he did what was asked. Reasonable action, I take it neutrally.
Fenris - Swaps to Jace (the other inactive)
dmboogie - Immediately swaps to Jace without much comment.
Yugi - Then also says he'd vote for Jace without actually voting for Jace, because apparently his joke vote hackled him.
Fen - does a bit of analysis and points out dea was trying to distract by joking about apathy which dea does anyway
kermit - defends deamon (but he's not wrong)
Irina - Swaps to Jace and is again wishy washy about the pros and cons of policy lynches. It reads quite bandwagony to me, but it could just be inexperience.
Dea - Says policy lynches are necessary to pressure inactives.
Me!! - Makes a very wise and valid input.
Emprexx Plush - Lol still a corpse
General Goosgle - Disagrees with me in an understandable but foolhardy error.
MS - Swaps to the Jace wagon, FingerSuspects me and Decoy. I read this neutrally again.
Dea - Casually slips in the idea of a bomb. I think he's just trolling.
Cactus - Admits to just repeating what others say by saying let's pressure Jace and Decoy, without voting again.
Zetsu - Says they're inclined to keep the pressure on decoy if they don't say more. Somewhat towny since they didn't immediately hop to Jace, but nothing solid.
Emprexx PLush - Lol I'm gonna keep saying it
Jace - Votes for MS without actually really saying why until Paige pushes, at which point it's because he thought MS was being haughty. Apologises for inactivity.
Kermit - softcommits to Jace cause he thinks his move was newbietownish but is happy to kill if no better alternative
MS - starts the bandwagon back to Decoy. I read this as a town power move.
Polybius - ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Agrees to policy lynch lurkers without actually voting. A bit suspicious.
Cactus - Finally votes after Fen points out Decoy responded faster than Jace. Kind of not concrete reasoning, but I have a hard time distrusting Fen right now. Dodd on the other hand...
Fen - Swaps back to Decoy. Again Decoy was evil so this is a good sign for me.
dmboogie - Again swaps back to Decoy. There's some serious follow the leader going on here.
decoy - Tries to shift things to Jace. Gives Jace some townie points to me, but I'm not going to hold onto it too much.
dmboogie - tells Decoy to try harder
Poly - Puts a vote on decoy with 'sure why not'.
zetsu - asks Decoy for analysis. Kind of townie.
Jace - Hops on the decoy wagon without much commentary. I'm reading this neutral again.
Blame it on a Goose - Hammers with Paige's permission.
Irina - Hammers harder. Could just be a miscount but could be last minute joining on.

This makes my reads, from towniest to scummiest:

Goodie Two Shoes
MethodicalSlacker - Gets big points for not letting the Decoy ship die when he could've walked away
Fen - Gets big points for starting on Decoy in the first place, but I'm not against it being something that grew out of their control/they threw decoy under the bus. Still, seems unlikely.
Jace - Didn't really say enough to get a hard read, but decoy trying to put the hurt on him gives some points.
Goose - Is making reasonable points and seems to be posting based on his own reasoning rather than appearances, which reads town to me.
Zetsu - A bit of early hopping on the wagon, but not unreasonable. Willing to give decoy a chance to defend himself, which I don't consider scummy by itself.
Irina Ivanov - Reads more as a newcomer making typical mistakes than suspicious. Still, could be fooling me.
kermit - Doing a bit of a smokescreen, but Kermit is by nature good at obsfuscating.
MurderWeasel - Said nothing during the Decoy lynch. I know Tobe likes to write novels for posts, but his staying out of it entirely is just a little bit eyebrow raising.
Cactus -Felt like he was trying to stay off the Decoy wagon without actually joining it, but then he joined it without much fuss. A prickly customer.
Polybius - Hopped on a bandwagon with momentum without much justification. Could easily be read as trying to cover their tracks by throwing Decoy under the bus.
dmboogie - Looked like he was joining whatever wagon had momentum behind it. Town or scum, this isn't helpful.
Dea - Seems pretty keen to spin his own narrative and avoided actually voting for Decoy.
Yugikun - Defended Decoy, tried to move attention to a relatively meaningless area (who was hesistant to stop memeing), and then tried to divert to MS and later Jace.
Eats Babies

So, based on that
Vote: Yugikun

So yes I am a fan of this post (I never do this sort of analysis myself so yes it is hypocritical but yeah), and quoting it because, like, I reckon I broadly buy into the order presented by Slam, but one thing I did want to add - while I agree with townreading MS and Fen, I might actually bump up Jace a little bit. Just that I think it's slightly more plausible that Fen decided to throw Decoy under the bus than Decoy trying to throw Jace under the bus. Like I dunno why but I can believe Fen doing that kind of strategy rather more.

Okay, I think I'm caught up, and have shaken off my dinner coma enough to get some thoughts out.

Also my away got cancelled because my hockey tournament and like, everything else in the world got cancelled because the coronavirus is all about cancel culture, so I should be around more, you can disregard my earlier statements about being away.

Firstly though, self-defense time.

Slam wrote:Cactus -Felt like he was trying to stay off the Decoy wagon without actually joining it, but then he joined it without much fuss. A prickly customer.

So that's exactly what I was doing; I have zero qualms admitting that. I felt that the reasoning of lynching one of the two lesser actives, while maybe a sketchy reason for further on, is probably about as sound a reason as you can find on day one. I'm pretty sure people have been lynched on day one for silly reasons like "THEY SAID LUNCHED INSTEAD OF LYNCHED, THAT MAKES EM EVIL LETS GOOOO". With that being said, I figured if we're going to do that, we need to let the people in question have at least a little bit of agency on their own fate. Hence my lack of vote and suggestion to let them have a say in their own demise. Lo and behold, they both did, and Fenris pounced on something that while intended or not, ended up being correct. That's EXACTLY why I think it's good to let people say a thing or two - there's a lot more chance to slip up. From my eyes, and my own opinion, Decoy did and that was good enough for me to toss a vote his way.

Irina wrote:Also I have my eyes on Cactus but idk how to read just a handler's post ina thread rn so I won't say my reasoning here yet

Haaaaaai. If you want to read just a particular handler's posts, if you go to the "Mafia" forum and click on the green number beside the thread, you should get a pop up that lets you sift through by that. I'm not sure what to say to this in my own defense until you give me a little more, but. You're giving early joiners on the lynch a pass, except you're not, apparently (I was the second to vote, I believe) so which is it? Pretty sure your reasoning for the vote is the same as mine, lol.

So as far as general thoughts on everything else?

I'd really like to see more from Toben as well. His silence this game has been pretty unusual and often there's a lot of analysis and stuff that I like to see from him that I haven't so far. His quietness this game strikes me as a little unusual.

Fenris reads as probably the most town for me so far. The decoy catch aside, all of their thoughts have been measured and logical and there hasn't been anything that seems to be a throwaway thought designed to obfuscate what they really think.

Slam seems to be like, kind of aggressively defending himself, which makes me go :\ but the reads-list that he put out was pretty thorough and I think he made a few pretty good points, which steers him back the other way.

Deamon's playing as I remember Deamon to play, fairly short and trying to state things that he thinks to stir the pot and keep people on their toes. Neutrally leaning him right now because I'm not sure he'd play any differently were he town or scum.

I don't get anything from Irina or Jace except reminders of when I didn't know what the heck I was doing and being fairly careful, so they both read town for me, Irina less so than Jace, but only because of the above.

I dunno what else to really offer. Every time I read something that makes me make a face, several posts later I make the other face. Most of my reads are town reads and like, not everyone can be town, apparently.

Oh! I do doubt that we're dealing with two mafias here. I don't think we have enough people and unless this is a bastard game (which you fuckers have pulled on us before), I think it's probably pretty reasonable to assume that there's probably at least a vig, maybe a sk. If that's the case, I'd surmise that the vig didn't shoot and the sk got blocked, hence only the one NK? I was SK last game and I pretty much wanted to shoot people at any and every opportunity, which I think is the point? xD

That's all I have, for whatever (little) it may be worth.