Survival Of The Fittest

Petty gripe of the moment: I think "lunched" sounds goofy. Can we say "dine upon" for a similar yet decidedly more sinister vibe?

Emprexx Plush wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:56 pm No swap yet. It's mean to make someone come into the most agreed upon scummy spot in the game which will be hanging over their play the rest od the game. We lunch the spot and we're mean to no one cuz it's empty.

I do think this is a pretty wise point--I don't hate replacements in isolation (I do hate replacing dead players back in but that's a whole other can of worms) but we right now have a high value slot with nobody attached that might get modkilled anyways.

However that also makes pushing an actual dinner date with that slot a proposition I'm not totally in love with in terms of the information it offers on those voting for it, which is to say: just about none. It's an absolute throwaway freebie. Is it better than going to bed hungry? Absolutely! But if if we could have delicious pudding and also the broccoli, why settle for just the veggies?

Or, put another way: by all means let's take out the slot if there's nothing better to do, but let's do our best to be sure that there is indeed nothing better to do first.

high value slot

where are you getting this idea that cactus's slot is high value? cuz if he roleclaimed anywhere in the thread, i did not see it

Jace wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:18 am Fair. I'm mostly just anxious to see if I was right about Dodd (or rather Dodd's role) or not, but I am down to wait if we all wanna keep talking. I have more suspicions now than I did last night about people besides him, so it for sure isn't pointless to wait.

Can we hear these? I'm very intrigued.

Zetsu wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:40 am Mind, if Dodd is town, Jace shoots to the top of my scumlist. Way, way, way too anxious about how a Dodd townflip would look on you, my dude.

So this hits a thing that's been bugging me as well with Jace's stuff: there's this... heavy vibe of fingers in pot, so to speak. We have a player coming in and going extremely hard against what's really pretty mild suspicion and then leveraging that into a lot of rhetoric that really shapes the narrative... which is great! Except that in this case the narrative being shaped and the rhetoric applied is all filtered through a lens of not-being-the-target--even the response to this being pointed out is to deflect that claim with a counter of being perfectly fine eventually being the target!

This can absolutely be some flailing for ground. Coming in with a plan and then running smack dab into being the first person to get legitimate shade thrown their way is rough. But like... this is the sort of thing that I see as a heck of a lot more logical if Jace were sitting on something good, like a cop or doctor role or whatever.

Instead, we've got a claimed VT under heavy suspicion dictating to town what they should do if he gets NKed and like... that is never going to happen (or at least, scum isn't gonna do it). Why on earth would scum shoot someone loudly drawing focus with no worthwhile role to remove? It makes no sense.

So this makes the coaching of town feel just a bit performative to me, or else like a way to stir the waters if a vig gets itchy and decides to look for answers.

And you know, normally I'd be inclined to sit on the player experience factor a bit more and temper stuff, but Jace came to play here, and to play hard. And pulling way too many strings at once is absolutely a new scum thing to do if you're casting yourself as the grand puppetmaster, so I'm not so willing to sit back and say it's purely innocuous.

(Also UNVOTE because I forgot I was still joke-voting Boogie)

Zetsu wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:02 am

high value slot

where are you getting this idea that cactus's slot is high value? cuz if he roleclaimed anywhere in the thread, i did not see it

Ah, I was vague in my phrasing: I mean high informational value derived from the slot's flip, as per Paige's breakdown of precisely who the flip will reflect on (which I generally agree with).

(jk, i have no particular objections to the popularization of the term 'dine upon' but believe that it should co-exist with, rather than replace, 'lunched')

EBWOP: this was supposed to be the image in the previous post

I’ll respond as soon as I’m home yo

Don't have much to say, but yeah, I'm good with a Dodd's spot lynch considering how messy reads would be once new person comes in, like Dodd did one thing, and the other person would certainly do the other. Would that clear the slot's innocence? Maybe, but it's just a bit of a bother, because you have two different sources of info

First day lunches..uh, dine ins, are kinda a bit wild anyways, so an info-lynch on either Jace or Dodd would be fine, and so would a policy lynch. That being said, I would put it to them being new, but Jace's play seems uh, not so towny. Like, the whole alien/human mix up I don't see a problem with, but their defense posts afterwards, the whole "I know it seems scummy if Dodd flips town" AND what MW has interpreted as trying to control the narrative at night? Idk man, Jace lemme hear your thoughts

Zetsu wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:53 am Sure! But it's not so much what you're saying about it that's setting my alarms off as the fact that you're talking about it at all. The degree to which you're fixated on the possibility and what it means for you feels off. Townies usually aren't quite that preoccupied with where they're standing in the game, or with how they'll be read.

Maybe not, but I am new and operating as myself who's excited at the prospect of my first well-informed lynch vote being correct.

MurderWeasel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:17 am So this hits a thing that's been bugging me as well with Jace's stuff: there's this... heavy vibe of fingers in pot, so to speak. We have a player coming in and going extremely hard against what's really pretty mild suspicion and then leveraging that into a lot of rhetoric that really shapes the narrative... which is great! Except that in this case the narrative being shaped and the rhetoric applied is all filtered through a lens of not-being-the-target--even the response to this being pointed out is to deflect that claim with a counter of being perfectly fine eventually being the target!

I don't wanna be lynched and have to stop participating, I'm just saying I know it's gonna happen so I've made peace with it. I've incriminated myself too many times by what are perceived as lies but really were just me paying too little attention and making claims without actually fact checking bc I was excited about catching Dodd lol. I'm not trying to look like i'm throwing up a well thought out defense which is why I haven't said this in the past, but I mean you all have talked to me before. as embarrassing as it is to admit, I kinda do this all the time in every conversation I get heavily involved in.

Also I'm not trying to shape the narrative, I'm just really really wanting to see if Dodd is town or not bc I've never been right before in mafia and led the conversation toward a successful vote, and that excites me bc I wanna be right

MurderWeasel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:17 am Instead, we've got a claimed VT under heavy suspicion dictating to town what they should do if he gets NKed and like... that is never going to happen (or at least, scum isn't gonna do it). Why on earth would scum shoot someone loudly drawing focus with no worthwhile role to remove?

In all seriousness, it never occurred to me that a VT would never be NK'd because I didn't know that not having a night action made me more expendable. This is where I worry about being suspected of trying to control the narrative. I suspect Slam because of reasons I made clear earlier. I'd like to revisit it in the future. I am fairly suspicious of Yugi because like I said, if he did make that point on purpose to make it look like my answer was coached (since statistically, VT was the most likely role claim I could've made). I figured my intention of revisiting that suspicion in a different day phase, if I am right or leaning the right direction, would make me a target to prevent me from investigating because if I was right and I was alive to push it, it's reasonable to assume I could push it fairly convincingly if I tried to.

Someone also asked who I suspected. Atm, I mostly suspect Slam, I am vaguely sus of Yugi for the reason mentioned earlier. I have other suspicions but no reasons behind them, just gut feelings, so I'm laying off of them for now until I get more to work with.

Jace wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:12 amI am fairly suspicious of Yugi because like I said, if he did make that point on purpose to make it look like my answer was coached (since statistically, VT was the most likely role claim I could've made). I figured my intention of revisiting that suspicion in a different day phase, if I am right or leaning the right direction, would make me a target to prevent me from investigating because if I was right and I was alive to push it, it's reasonable to assume I could push it fairly convincingly if I tried to.

We don't actually know this for sure, though--some past games have had no VTs at all. More than that, Yugi's point is just about flavor stuff--for all I know half the aliens look person-like. It seems, to me, a stretch to suspect Yugi of an elaborate frame-job here. That's not to say he's in no way suspicious, or even that this action is not suspicious, but where I'm sitting it's a lot more suspect if you (Jace) eventually flip scum, because then it looks like coaching.

And if Jace does flip scum eventually, frankly the push on Yugi over this looks really bad for Yugi IMO because it comes off as distancing--potentially shoving against Yugi to dig him back out of an otherwise-inevitable hole.

Jace wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:12 amSomeone also asked who I suspected. Atm, I mostly suspect Slam, I am vaguely sus of Yugi for the reason mentioned earlier. I have other suspicions but no reasons behind them, just gut feelings, so I'm laying off of them for now until I get more to work with.

So I actually would love to hear the gut feelings and such. There's good content to be had (especially if you're under suspicion--if you're town it tells us more about your thought processes and lets others maybe slip the missing puzzle piece into place, and if you're scum it helps town by giving them more data to sift--obviously that doesn't help you if you're scum, but you're claiming to be town so it's a good idea to do regardless ). I know some people tend to jump quickly if even the vaguest of suspicions is aimed in their direction, but I'm a big proponent of dumping lots of info on the table to better see what we're working with and I think folks should in general understand that "Yeah I don't like how Boogie wears his baseball cap" isn't a massive courtroom accusation or anything.

MW wrote:Instead, we've got a claimed VT under heavy suspicion dictating to town what they should do if he gets NKed and like... that is never going to happen (or at least, scum isn't gonna do it). Why on earth would scum shoot someone loudly drawing focus with no worthwhile role to remove?

Can you point me at where he does this, perchance? I'm definitely seeing attempts to shape the narrative, but not in this particular way. Also, dictating to town what they should do if he gets NK'd feels like a pretty neutral move at worst? Maybe even town-ish? I do that all the time as town: if I get NK'd, this is who you should be suspicious of (and then NK analysis turns into a big WIFOM clusterfuck anyways, but eh).

Jace wrote:Also I'm not trying to shape the narrative, I'm just really really wanting to see if Dodd is town or not bc I've never been right before in mafia and led the conversation toward a successful vote, and that excites me bc I wanna be right

Hackles raised over this as it feels inaccurate. You feel more fixated on the possibility of your being wrong than anything else.

@MW

If I'm following Paige correctly, I think the policy lynch is one because it feels like we're forcing the mod's hand, and that feels...wrong? Nobody's going to be placing into Dodd's slot with such a train on his head, so it feels kinda like we've gamed the system by forcing the modkill of cactus's slot, while also getting a second lynch. Effectively, it's like we get a double lynch on day 1 since cactus is mainly not going to be replaced because he'd be lynched anyways. Feels a little rough on Dea to have to balance around that, if that makes sense. Like, we'd be gunning for Dodd if he were still in the game, so it feels kinda shady to gun for another lynch instead, and then let Dodd get modkilled in a pseudo-second-lynch.