Survival Of The Fittest

Slam wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:04 pm did we have to do 25 pages for day 1 guys geez

This is more unrelated but agreed here. No offence to the people who posted 50+ times on day one, but there is no harder way to lock less-invested town out of the discussion by filling the thread with wayyyyyyyyyy too many posts circling the actions of one 50+ post player.

Yugikun wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:11 am I personally feel that its Jace trying to buddy up and attach myself to him rather than the other way round or anything mutual?

Nah it's actually none of these. I was just presenting all the straws that were there to grasp at so that everyone knew where my head was at. It literally was nothing more than that

Zetsu wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:24 pm i just went to tapawasteland to try to ISO some of y'all's old games but it appears that tapa lacks that function. has anyone had any success there?

Sadly nope--it uses the same core software the current board does, just with loads of functionality stripped out. The feature is not natively supported, and while it's easy to set up... Tapatalk doesn't give you that level of control (and even if it did would likely paywall it -_-)

fuck tapatalk 2020 we still out here

Also, here's the core thing that's getting to me re: Jace:

Desperately flailing to stay alive as vanilla town does not serve town's win condition. At all. Avoiding town mislynching does, but that's not really the motivation here. Winning the game has nothing to do, for town, with being alive or not. For scum, the correlation is much more obvious, even for something low-power (say, a goon).

I'm also not really buying the idea that Jace is both super aware enough of how Decoy got rocked by the VT claim last game to the point he wouldn't fake it and also unaware enough that VTs are an unreliable, expendable claim to just randomly throw it out (which, remember, is his defense for that course of action). I'm also starting to side-eye some points of the discourse that seem like they're down to get close to the idea that Jace is scum, but then go "But oh, all the scummy behavior is just new town syndrome!" Sometimes, new scum messes up and is obvious, and railing against stuff being "too obvious" is how we WIFOM ourselves into a really embarrassing loss.

But, you know, there's another thing that's slightly bugging me too:

We just got a VT flip. The flavor attached to it was ADVENT Officer. Jace's claim is ADVENT Trooper, also VT. Is this possible? Sure, loads of setups use a bunch of kind of generic flavor roles as VT. But it feels a little weird to me to have, like, a regular/elite divide that's sitting on the exact same role, just on a fluff level. I know very little about XCOM, so paging a lore fiend to tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree here, but there was something about Fenris' flip I couldn't put my finger on and going back into the claim? This is a big part of it.

Damn, power role gone already? And a relatively strong one?

Anyways, I'm getting neutral reads on Jace going moreso on town, again. While no offense, I don't think he's so competent as to do a galaxy big brain strat, the whole "Imma get lynched guys I know" and "Oh shoot I'm done for" stuff is so weird to me and it kinda gives me scum vibes. But then, I realise that he's probably just town who wildly mis-shot, because while I know town lynches probably would tend to have scum near the beginning, it's easy to just let energetic town just do the job for them. Also, claiming VT so early seems genuine

Also, MW, not a lore fiend, but Trooper IS the most expendable and numerous of Advent soldiers, officers are like commanders and such. So yeah, there's no way Jace would be a power role or anything else then a VT IF his flavor is correct. Idk, I'd understand character mafias can't have say, fifty of one character, but XCOM is definitely a game where you can have fifty officers, maybe VTs get different flavour names to be more unique? Still, that's weird

Will have more to say once I read through the posts after eating

*schloops through the floor and rises up*

OKAY. Checking in for the first time and getting myself caught up. My first initial thought when reading through the day is that Jace doesn't look any worse in my eyes after the Dodd flip, because he was repeating the same behaviors in a game where he was scum and so it followed to reason this could be the same exact trick. Because again, regardless of actual troubles, falling back on outside-game stuff to get out of a lynch for an extra day is a pretty dirty move (if life's got you down, you vacate your seat - incidentally, that's what he chose to do this time, but at that point I stuck with the lynch on principle because getting a read on whoever fills the slot would be VERY messy and put town in a bad spot).

Jace says this makes me look bad, that's kind of town points with him (but I frowny face), Toben defends me, my eternal distrust for Toben makes me frowny face SUPER HARD (you can't buy my trust, damn you!) and we're left with not a whole lot to go off after a Dodd town flip and a Fenris death since they were so damn quiet.

I'll wait to see what Irina has to say.

...i v much missed that Jace and Fen flipped differently.

Alright that error in reading comprehension blows up the under the table thing I had going. My theory was that Yugi is also a vanilla townie either soft claiming or accidentally outing himself from the wording of his role, which he, jace, and fen all shared. I was also suspecting that scum don't have fake claims this game due to size and the probability that we don't have a cop after a watcher flip in a game this small. I was ready to jump on Jace for pressure today but when fen flipped I thought it was likely a soft confirmation for Jace and Yugi, with the off chance that the advent claim is a blanket scum safe claim so it would be best either way to give Jace support and not bus him too hard to see if Yugi or anyone else came knocking to help him up.

But they're not the same role, and Jace claimed the role Yugi said instead of the one Fen flipped. That could be coincidence, but I'm more than willing to take a flier on Jace having fucked up.

Note that I'm not saying Jace and Yugi are confirmed scum buddies but if Jace does flip scum boy does it look bad for him imo

I'll read/respond to everyone else as soon as I read it but @what Toben said about the flavor text I have two questions.

First, are y'all seriously gonna sit here and pretend like NOBODY else got Advent TROOPER (which is exactly how my role pm says it) in their role PMs?

Second, Deamon, you didn't seriously assign VTs two or more designations did you lol bc now I'm having to defend myself against an accusation that advent trooper isn't real flavor text even tho it clearly is lol ughhhhh

MurderWeasel wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:42 am
I'm also not really buying the idea that Jace is both super aware enough of how Decoy got rocked by the VT claim last game

I mean good bc I did not say that I knew about the Decoy thing. I was inactive af back in the first one or two day phases in the previous game and I had completely forgotten that that had happened until it was brought up.

MK Kilmarnock wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:05 am
Jace says this makes me look bad, that's kind of town points with him (but I frowny face)

Sowwy

Emprexx Plush wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:15 am But they're not the same role, and Jace claimed the role Yugi said instead of the one Fen flipped. That could be coincidence, but I'm more than willing to take a flier on Jace having fucked up.

I'm legit annoyed lol that with this many screw ups under my belt this fits so perfectly. I misread the roles, remember. I have no idea anything about XCOM, or advent troopers even are. I didn't get that off the XCOM mafia wiki, I got it off my role PM. Clearly this was a lore thing Deamon did, giving VTs more than one type of designation. I don't blame you guys for your theories but no, that is actually what my role PM says.

Since I literally, well, FOS'ed Cactus for a policy/info lynch, not saying anything about info would be super pointless. So time to IOS I guess:

Looking back, I see why Jace pointed fingers at Cactus, that sudden jump to FOS'ing Blizz and Jace for something other people were doing was super sudden, and a pretty easy path for scum to jump on the bandwagon if they wanted to get rid of a town like Cactus. And then boogie jumps on Cactus's bandwagon, not sure what to think of that. Cactus then defends himself against Jace, woo. Jace's pushed against Dodd hard, and that feels towny to me, scum's more content doing what Dodd seemed to be doing. Not a whole lot coming from Dodd himself, tbh.

Who said the lynch would provide info, and on who again?

Irina Ivanov wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:23 amJace's pushed against Dodd hard, and that feels towny to me, scum's more content doing what Dodd seemed to be doing.

Can you dig into this a little more for me? What that Dodd's doing is scum more content doing?

For the record, for the sake of providing more info re the Advent Trooper/Officer thing (and since I don't think I'm reasonably going to bluff a more powerful role than I actually have), I am an ADVENT Trooper, and I am a townie.

No other townies should claim to help clear this matter up, unless someone smarter than me at this gives a good reason as to why you should. If every townie claims then that makes it very easy for scum to figure out who the important power roles are.