Survival Of The Fittest

The current vote total is as follows:

Deamon - 5 (MurderWeasel, KamiKaze, dmboogie, BlizzardeyeWonder, Cactus)

Approximately 2 days remain. 14 alive means 8 to lynch. Who decides the truth?

Deamon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:23 pm Gonna level with y'all, I think you guys have a low bar for combativeness.

So then, the second bit:

If you don't like being Plan A, what do you think should be Plan B?

Grim Wolf wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:16 pm While I'm not eager to stand up for Deamon (and am fully cognizant that their flip could damn me even further in some people's eyes), given I have basically no reads on anyone right now, I'm not wild about how quickly this train seems to be forming on so little info? We've got a little time, we can afford to investigate our options. I'm still working on reworked reads post talking about my thoughts. In my own defense though, I hopped off the blast train before it lost steam: you can't accuse me of trying to screw blast unless you're accusing me of a larger gambit, such as buying the claim and wanting to use a mafia NK on them instead.

It may have gotten buried but would you mind posting your old reads list? The one you alluded to a post or two before, and that you mention reworking now? It's totally cool if it's a mess and obsolete--I'm just trying to get a better peg on your actions last phase and this will help a lot there.

Riki wrote: ↑Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:49 pm Gianni, innocent? Ironic design .

Also I'd like to ask MW for some clarifications regarding his feelings towards me. "He made points I agree with but that is a suspicious" is a bit of an odd take understand here

Okie dokie, here we go:

Me in the past wrote:Bik: The thing is, Bik has yet to be on a good wagon (fair enough, only one option) but has been on a few bad wagons, often rather quietly.

It's suspicious that you've been quietly kicking innocent people under the bus. That is a bad look, especially when done in a way that minimizes personal responsibility for it.

Me in the past wrote:More than that, though, I'm looking a bit askance at his push against the MS lynch. I actually agree with some of his points, but he's more interested in pivoting off the MS wagon into another lynch. It feels like someone setting up to reap rewards from a bad lynch more than trying to prevent one.

So, you were right about why MS seemed Town... but your call to action was less "Let's avoid this horrible mistake!" and more "Oh no, this horrible mistake cannot be stopped, lament this with me and kill the folks I deem responsible next!" At least, that's how I read it. Your points on why MS wasn't very suspicious were good, but they weren't used to benefit MS but rather to build a preemptive set of Town credibility for yourself and to look towards where to point the gun next phase.

It's actually really easy for Scum to be super accurate in defending Townies, because they know who's in their Scum team and thus have more info than the rest of the game on who's innocent. This can make it very tempting to go hard defending someone and then reap the rewards later when everyone's pointing fingers deciding who to blame for the misfire--I've done it loads myself. That's more the mentality I'm seeing behind the defense offered, based on what it was used for.

MurderWeasel wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:07 am

Deamon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:23 pm Gonna level with y'all, I think you guys have a low bar for combativeness.

So then, the second bit:

If you don't like being Plan A, what do you think should be Plan B?

Urgh, man, iso's are effort fam.

Deamon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:19 pm

MurderWeasel wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:07 am

Deamon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:23 pm Gonna level with y'all, I think you guys have a low bar for combativeness.

So then, the second bit:

If you don't like being Plan A, what do you think should be Plan B?

Urgh, man, iso's are effort fam.

How about just giving your thoughts on my readlist? Agree or disagree with points besides your own?

See my biggest question mark is Grim because he pops in posts game structure analysis and then departs. He's yet to give a solid read on anyone which if I were working on a big reads list I feel like I'd be able to add that.

Riki, because y'know.

I'm also looking at Blizz and Kami because it feels like there's surface level analysis going on but then they just hop on any lynch train that is forming, which is a good way to hide.

Gonna level with y'all, I think you guys have a low bar for combativeness.

Gotta level with y'all, but this is an example of what I'm saying.

I was pointing at stuff like:

Sorry, I won't ask questions anymore dad, my b

Again, this was when MS was FoSing your butt. There was nothing else said. When Toben and I pitch a lynch train and it gets going, it's another brief quip? Though, I did like that you gave your thoughts after a bit more pushing from Tobes. And the fact you were on a vacation apparently might explain some of it a little?

Also, seconding the Grim reads-list!

The current vote total is as follows:

Deamon - 5 (MurderWeasel, KamiKaze, dmboogie, BlizzardeyeWonder, Cactus)

Approximately 1 day remains. 14 alive means 8 to lynch. Does the world really wait for no one?

@Kami

Deamon is like this every game, town, scum, or Jester. Do you think this is scummy behavior or are you trying to policy lynch?

Deamon is like this every game, town, scum, or Jester. Do you think this is scummy behavior or are you trying to policy lynch?

????

I don't understand what you're asking. Are you asking whether I'm legitimately thinking Deamon is sus or if I'm just like "well, somebody has to be lynched"?

Admittedly, I'm not familiar with Deamon's normal playstyle too much. I don't/didn't play SOTF mafia too much, largely because I don't always have fun doing so + not feeling I'm any good at it. So, I largely join when I like the flavor (such as TV1 or megucas). So, am I missing something?

My take:

Deamon is prickly every game, but there are different styles and layers to it. He's definitely not off the hot seat from me, and honestly while I'm not in policy-lynch territory, someone being comparatively unhelpful is a nice tiebreak.

That said, as mentioned Riki's also rubbed me pretty wrong throughout. I don't hate the idea of pursuing that lead either, though I'm pretty intent on us not misfiring due to timing shenanigans, given we've got several folks who are legit suspicious.

re: Deamon's reads, what I don't love is that the strongest reads are on the other people being pushed, and there's not loads of content to back it up. Feels like lynch-evasion more than constructive sleuthing.

What I think I'd like to see now from Deamon is a full claim. He's in the hot seat, but due to some particulars about this phase (specifically, Goose's decision to come forward) claiming is a good bit less risky than usual (at least in the extreme short term), and might have the pleasant side effect of forcing scum to decide between a couple targets (with corresponding potential for doctor shenanigans or wires getting crossed with each). The sooner the better as far as letting us redirect our efforts if need be goes.

I'm asking if you think his responses are evidence that he' s scum, and if that suspicion changes with the context that he does this regardless of his role. Or are you saying it doesn't matter what his role is, his responses are unhelpful so we should lynch him no matter what?

OH!

A little of column A.

Basically, it's weird responses to stuff that you'd think there'd be a little more? Like, the aforementioned back-and-forthing with Dodd and the offhand quips in response to people FoSing or proposing a train. It could mean scum lurking just under the radar, or it could be just what's counter-suggested: Deamon's busy and just doesn't have much to say. I might pull up what I said before.

I'm thinking it over, and while I don't want to entirely back down I do have a little more faith in him for now.

MurderWeasel wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:02 pm re: Deamon's reads, what I don't love is that the strongest reads are on the other people being pushed, and there's not loads of content to back it up. Feels like lynch-evasion more than constructive sleuthing.

Unfortunately, I cannot help the most suspicious people being already pushed/worked on. My options are either ignore them as suspects or point out that I too find them suspicious and let's be honest you can swing both of those options either way.

Also, I think we have this discussion every game but I'm not claiming just because you want me to. That's information for whatever factions could be in play for free.