Survival Of The Fittest

Anyway if our choices today are between Cactus and boogie I'm... not really a fan of either? Like, if I had to pick I'd go for Dodd mainly because I think that last night's killing was more an attempt to set up boogie rather than boogie attempting to get attention off of him and I don't think "I'm voting for you because I don't think this other player is scum" is exactly a great rationale to kill somebody on. I'm thinking of maybe reconsidering my views on Irina in the meantime because my initial townread has been waning. Maybe also gonna read the last two phases again to get more views.

I will say — if I am wrong (which... I've been this whole game so far, I'm pretty sure) and boogie is indeed scum, then it might be a good idea to take a look at Fenris. They've been very close with boogie all game and even if they are, like, friends and stuff, it does seem like it could be read as buddying.

We could always lynch someone else - I still think lynching boogie is the smart call but if it means it isn't me; pick a name, make a case!

Which, if you look, is literally all I've been asking for people to do.

Cactus wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:00 am We could always lynch someone else - I still think lynching boogie is the smart call but if it means it isn't me; pick a name, make a case!

Which, if you look, is literally all I've been asking for people to do.

you should provide some names hth

Yugikun wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:54 am I will say — if I am wrong (which... I've been this whole game so far, I'm pretty sure) and boogie is indeed scum, then it might be a good idea to take a look at Fenris. They've been very close with boogie all game and even if they are, like, friends and stuff, it does seem like it could be read as buddying.

fen, is my friend

Okay, so let's go about this a different way. Instead of getting defensive and bitchy at being fingered with zero reasons that hold any water; I'll pick the one that Deamon and Zetsu have both keyed in on: that I've not "been helpful". So if you'd like helpful, I'll give you helpful. Even though if you look back, I've done this like ten freaking times already.

People I am suspicious of based upon things they've done:

dmboogie: Why suggesting the simplest explanation might be the accurate one is scummy, I have no idea, but let's look at the facts. boogie hasn't driven any of the buses, and most of his contributions have been quiet, unobstrusive, and designed to say very little while looking like he's giving contributions. In fact, the majority of his posts have been in arguments with other people. It's why he's gotten away with being so high up in posting while nobody's realized it. It's a good strategy, but I'm seeing right through it.

Goose: Have we forgotten that Goose has gone out and claimed VT? Because he did, and we've apparently all just decided that's okay. While yes, we lynched Kermit after he claimed miller, I don't see that we necessarily did a terrible thing. Did we lose a number? Yes. That was a bummer. But we also didn't risk finding a false positive during an investigation, which is better for town to mislynch earlier rather than later. Otherwise, Goose has just floated super highly under the radar. If people suddenly believe that boogie is this paragon of town virtue, I'd much rather lynch Goose out of principle than be lynched myself.


People who have said things to make me suspicious even though they've townread for me so far:

Fenris: Again, we seem to have completely missed the fact that Fenris has stated they will not vote for boogie. This is like, a gigantic, gigantic red flag! And yet - all the talk and all of the effort posts have read really, really town to me, and so it's made me a little suspicious. Not to the point where I want to wave my arms in the air and start a bus, but I'd love an explanation as to why.

Deamon: Maybe it's playstyle, but I just don't see how the one-line posts are "helping the town", like I seemingly haven't been. All he's been doing is calling people out and stoking the fires. It's not lynchable, but if you're scum, that's a really nice way to obfuscate yourself.


People I'd like to lynch based solely on principle (not really; aka the we should not lynch this person list):

Zetsu: IF I WERE SCUM I WOULD HAVE NK'D YOU ALREADY BECAUSE I THINK IT WOULD BE HILARIOUS BECAUSE YOU'RE SO MAD ABOUT IT. All kidding aside, I still get town vibes from Zetsu and I don't see ANY need to lynch them or even consider it.


Neutrally vibes:

Jace: I get earnest newbie vibes from Jace, he seems to want to be contributing but is making small mistakes in how he's phrasing things or at least not making correct reads. This phase, since his reads were incorrect on Kermit (join the club), he has stayed back on making any reads. I would like to see more, because at least if they're wrong, they're something the rest of us can go off of.

Irina: Far be it for me to throw suspicion on the one person who doesn't seem intent on lynching me, but the last few posts have been a little confusing to gleam and I'd like to see more of a comprehensive reads list from them before I really lean one way or another.


Yugi: Yugi gets his own category because I don't really know where to put him. He's seemed very neutral and has stuck to his guns, even when they've been wrong. If I had to guess at this point, I'd put him closer to the middle because I'm just not sure.


So here, my favoured targets for lynch right now are as follows:

1. boogie
2. Goose
3. Deamon
4. Irina
---
5. Fenris
6. Jace
7. Yugi
8. Zetsu

I don't know if I'm even capable of going as in-depth as some of you, but that's what I see of everyone right now. You can say it's helpful or not, this is about as much as I can give! Like I just said - if we don't want to lynch boogie, then name a name, make a case. By my list above, the next natural person to lynch in my opinion is Goose.

So there. I'll even put my money where my mouth is.

Unvote: boogie
Vote: Goose

There, I've "made my own decision".

dmboogie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:08 am

Yugikun wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:54 am I will say — if I am wrong (which... I've been this whole game so far, I'm pretty sure) and boogie is indeed scum, then it might be a good idea to take a look at Fenris. They've been very close with boogie all game and even if they are, like, friends and stuff, it does seem like it could be read as buddying.

fen, is my friend

[img=https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cd/11/ce ... ff3bd1.jpg]

Cactus wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:13 am boogie hasn't driven any of the buses

i drove the kermit bus man

but anyways cactus is still incredibly high on my scum list but IF he's town it's better to have effortposting town than lurking town, and we've got enough of a lead that i'm fine with a goose lurker lunch i guess

VOTE: GENERAL GOOSE

ok im still working on this fuckin WALL OF TEXT but i would like to point out that gianni claimed zetsu as VT as his role, which is a very unusual choice. no offense to zetsu shes great and i love her but she isnt around in chat like, at all, and isnt super talkative, and i wouldnt expect her to be a role in this game unless ricky was picking players based off of people who play mafia. which he clearly isn't based on the already revealed characters.

zetsu is however a smart choice for someone who really doesnt wanna risk picking someone who was already assigned as a fake claim. soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo IM SUSPICIOUS.


im not voting yet because i dont wanna jump up to 3/5 suddenly. but

FoS: General Goose

talk to the people gianni

wow i fucked up all my formatting

UNVOTE: CACTUS

VOTE: GENERAL GOOSE

okay who's ready for some fucking OVERDOING IT!!!!!!! i hope its yall or we're gonna have problems. anyway im not gonna go post by post because dodd has 55 posts so that would take forever but i Will go day by day, summarize points, and quote stuff that is specifically relevant. please accept my meager brain offerings, etc. also note im mostly looking at these posts in a vacuum and only skimming context so if im missing important context here please hit me with a rolled-up newspaper. thank u

day 1:

i mean day 1 was mostly memes for everyone, but there isn't a ton meaningful here. 7 posts of no real content, then mentioning that lynching is better than not lynching even if the thought process is not wholly laid out. which is like, true. theres a Super soft defense of decoy here that i could call suspect but id be reaching cause yeah its better to let people defend themselves than not. id call it suspect if it was the second lynch train but it was the first one. he agrees with pressuring lurkers generally, also a thing i agree with but like this was just kinda in agreement with everyone else when he said it so its kinda meaningless blending in with the general opinion

he jumps on the second decoy train more or less immediately after i point out decoy's suspect Lurking which is maybe to his credit since if he was scum he could have waited to see if it took before Getting On Board, but also maybe he saw that it was more than likely at that point decoy would be lynched and decided to get on board? overall i think that's more to town credit than not tho. he was the first vote on that lynch train before it really got Moving which is a positive sign.

day 2:

this is where we get dodd's first serious Effortpost. he responds to slam pointing out what i pointed out above (that he gave a soft defense of decoy before hopping on the second train for him) as follows:

doddski wrote: So that's exactly what I was doing; I have zero qualms admitting that. I felt that the reasoning of lynching one of the two lesser actives, while maybe a sketchy reason for further on, is probably about as sound a reason as you can find on day one. I'm pretty sure people have been lynched on day one for silly reasons like "THEY SAID LUNCHED INSTEAD OF LYNCHED, THAT MAKES EM EVIL LETS GOOOO". With that being said, I figured if we're going to do that, we need to let the people in question have at least a little bit of agency on their own fate. Hence my lack of vote and suggestion to let them have a say in their own demise. Lo and behold, they both did, and Fenris pounced on something that while intended or not, ended up being correct. That's EXACTLY why I think it's good to let people say a thing or two - there's a lot more chance to slip up. From my eyes, and my own opinion, Decoy did and that was good enough for me to toss a vote his way.

i dont really have a criticism of this, it makes sense to me. im quoting exact words here in case yall have nitpicks that i dont have lmao

some more thoughts of his from the same post: he asks for more analysis from toben (honestly id love to go back to toben's analysis now that we know he was scum and see what he was up to but also toben is so galaxy brain in general i dont know that id get anything out of that. anyway), he says i read town (very cool), gives kinda neutral reads on slam deamon irina and jace. gives some thoughts on the game setup which is what was being discussed at the time, not really any new opinions there.

at this point slam had given his extensive read list; slam was town, as we all know now, and dodd's opinions dont significantly go against his except that he's more equivocating about deamon whereas slam was very suspect of him. overall this read post doesnt really contribute a lot of new thought and mostly feels like its repeating other people's opinions (im town for starting the decoy train, slam is being defensive, deamon's post style is sus but its also how he always posts, jace and irina have New Kid Energy). which makes this all kind of a wash for me!

ok then he throws a FoS at Poly when the lynch train is already underway which is an interesting decision; it would be super sus if it turned out Poly was scum but he wasnt, obviously. so either this was just an overabundance of caution Or dodd didnt wanna jump on a train that was already probably heading out of the station when he knew we'd be lynching town on the other side of it. this is a wifom area so i wont speculate too much. as he repeated recently he only didnt hammer because yugi asked to; that said i dont think that makes a difference. poly claiming VT made it very easy for anyone on either side to justify hammering him. so i dont think dodd is More suspect for having not done so. staying off of a town lynch would be pretty convenient for him as scum tho!

day 3:

another pretty long effort post here.

fenris wrote: imo town lynches are the opposite suspicion-direction of mafia ones; earlier members of the lynch train are more sus since obvs mafia knows who town is and can just sit out of a lynch so they look less suspect after a bad lynch, but its good for them to Start bad lynches. so that would be kermit, slam, and, uh, me

dodderino wrote: So this is an interesting thing, and were Fenris *not* pinging strongest town for me all game long, I'd be like "that could be a very impressive gambit" — that being said, I do agree that Kermit has been tres suspicious. On the other hand, if he is truly Chad, it's VERY POSSIBLE that he could be a Jester, rather than a miller. I'm not sure if we want to risk lynching him because of that. I would agree with Slam's call to take a shot at him in the evening if we do have a friendly vig around. Otherwise, we're probably stuck with the brain worms until the bitter end.

wow! i look like a dumbass in retrospect huh!! this is basically always true of me tho!!!! can we like agree as a society to not do things with the assumption of jesters existing from now on, jesters suck and we can just murder the game mod if they do exist

anyway outside of that this is mostly a reads post. most of these reads are pretty similar to the prior ones and not significantly different from general opinions. same basic opinion on "deamon is always like this" with some more town points given in his direction, Immediately after slam had just moved deamon to the top of his townie list, so theres that. pointing a finger at boogie here is also like a popular opinion. he does ask jace why he hasn't been voting and disagrees with slam's thoughts on irina, which are, yknow, original thoughts and feelings

replicated as food for thought:

dodd sr the most senior of dodds wrote: V1 Adam Dodd
Fen
Deamon
Slam
---
Yugi
Irina
Zetsu
Jace
---
boogie
Kermit
Goose
V3 Adam Dodd

we know now slam was indeed town and kermit was indeed also town. i was also super fuckin sus of kermit so i cant judge anyone getting that one wrong tbh.

slam's read list from like two hours prior by comparison:

slam wrote: Nun in Disguise
Dea - Dea's playstyle actually doesn't make a lot of sense for a scum, as he isn't buddying up to anyone and thinks he can fite me. Challenging the Poly lynch is also a good town point getter, although he could've put his foot down more if he felt that strongly against it.
Fen - Haven't done anything since day one to make me give them side-eyes. Lynching decoy still gets town points, but it could still be an elaborate cover.
Yugikun - His reasoning isn't great but it's consistent and unpopular. I like consistent and unpopular.
Cactus - Staying pretty neutral on everything, but wanting to give people a chance to defend themselves rather than try to rush proceedings is pretty town.
Zetsu - Zetsu's pretty tough to read. I think they're just being inconsistent rather than necessarily manipulative, but there's people I'd rather not see lyncehd before them.
Jace - Pretty keen to provide commentary on all these bandwagons but never actually commits to anything. What gives, Jace?
Irina Ivanov - Joined both wagons super late. Doing a lot more following than leading on anything.
kermit - I'm not actually sure if Kermit is scum or not, but his obsfucating is unhelpful and disruptive. I'd like to see him out of the way.
Goose - Actually just buddying up with me at this point. Attaching yourself to the most analytical person in the game (of course) is a convenient smokescreen.
dmboogie - Not saying much of anything; deliberately stayed off the Poly lynch while still soft-pushing it.
Votes for the other Political Party

these are Very similar. like the segments line up exactly except that slam has dodd lower than dodd has slam. this could totally be a coincidence re: two townies agreeing with each other or it could be dodd slightly reshuffling slam's thoughts to look original, which is what we're out here accusing him of.

deamon responds to dodd's read on boogie by basically saying boogie and dodd are acting the same way re: soft-pushing and not committing. having read all his shit so far i can generally agree with dodd that thats only true at all re: the poly lynch. he jumped on the decoy train as soon as he had evidence to do so but he did stay away from the poly lynch. i explained my thoughts and feelings on That already. he then states hes equally suspect of boogie kermit and gianni and says we should "pick one and go with it" which like something about that wording is a little uncomfortable to me but that could just be in my head.

some stuff about jester being a bastard role (it is and all mods who use jesters will be guillotined with the landlords), vore count, repeating thoughts on boogie/kermit/gianni. he votes for kermit and says he's trusting my logic here which is a bad idea because im stupid but i appreciate the thought yknow? again i cannot make judgments because i was wrong!!



this is too fucking long jesus christ. im taking a break to play animal crossing and then ill deal with stuff from today okay. thanks

Do you think I've played enough mafia to produce read lists of value haha no, hecking no

Also, why does not lynching you place you in your better books again Cactus? You've been placing me in your neutral part the entire game, which as Fen said is quite similar to Slam's read list of noob so null. Plus, I remember in the Poly train you said me voting will exonerate me instead, which I don't see??? Even Slam picked it up at some point and suspected me of buddying

Also thanks Fen, you are now also officially another big pusher of the Cactus train, staying off it rn though, since I honestly don't see anything wrong with his quieter play when I read it, and it's fair to say there's no sk this time lol, so his scum playstyle might be different

effort post pt 2 electric boogaloo but also less long cause its just about stuff since this day started!!

day 4:

dodd's first post here is immediately to gun for boogie, with the rationale that slam was gunning for boogie and slam got nightkilled. i already went into how wifom this immediately gets and dodd acknowledges that but posits that the simplest explanation may be the best one. again, wifom, but my personal opinion is that scum is more likely than not to stay away from targets that are obviously targetting Them. just like, on average, unless theyre noob scum, which boogie obviously wouldnt be if he was scum? anyway whats more relevant here is this came quickly on the heels of deamon voting for boogie which is interesting because this is by far the most quickly dodd has jumped on any lynch. if he's town he might just be very confident in his read of boogie; if he's scum he might be smelling blood in the water and wanting to pounce on it while the iron's hot. mixed metaphors. etc

anyway deamon says he doesnt trust dodd or I ASSUME ME I LITERALLY DIDNT REALIZE THIS WAS PROBABLY ABOUT ME UNTIL JUST NOW. i was like "who's the wolf" this whole time. im very dumb. anyway dodd says he doesnt trust deamon either but like maybe he trusts him more than other people which is kind of a nothing statement, feels to me more like "you're voting for the person i want to vote for so how i feel about you doesnt matter", which is not great play regardless of whether hes scum or town. he asks gianni to do reads when he pops in for five seconds and doubles down on the thing he said about boogie above when boogie posits its more likely that scum killed slam to put more suspicion on him

(honestly boogie bringing this up makes the whole thing even More wifom-y and id probably side-eye it a lil bit if i didnt trust him with my life and if i wouldnt also probably say the same thing if i was in his situation so)

boogie points out dodd's reasoning is bad, deamon posits that might be because hes scum sneaking on a train, boogie votes for him, dodd defends himself by saying he was already thinking about going after boogie the day before. this is true, but it wasnt a particularly unpopular opinion. a lot of people thought boogie was scummy, its an easy train to try to run. dodd both says he doesnt think we can wait and that we dont lose anything by waiting which is confusing. i think he means we cant wait to lynch boogie but we can wait to lynch gianni? the wording is just odd. not in a suspicious way just in a "its hard to make sense when u cant edit your posts" way. saying he'd be driving the bus on boogie if deamon didnt vote first is pointless cause like that didnt happen, so

dodd and boogie go back and forth a bit here where boogie accuses dodd of waiting on the boogie lynch because he knew kermit was town and could push for two easy town lynches in a row while framing boogie by nightkilling slam. dodd argues back that that doesnt make sense because slam was never suspicious of dodd and so why would dodd want to nightkill him. the thing about this argument is: if dodd Is town, this is extremely amateurish, and dodd isnt at all bad at mafia so i wouldnt expect that of him. "why would scum kill someone who isn't attacking them during the day??" is a super simplistic take and something i'd expect of a new player, which is why i'm side-eyeing it really hard, because it makes a Lot more sense if this was the general plan dodd had as scum and is now trying to push that narrative forward. the alternative is that i'm overestimating dodd, which is also possible! i dont actually know how much mafia he's played lmao

dodd mentions that slam was town and so we should maybe take his opinions into higher account which is honestly suspect also in light of how closely slam's opinions just so happen to line up with dodd's own. like, "i align myself with a town member and agree with everything he says and then kill him to reveal his alignment and justify all of my opinions as Good and Right" isn't even that galaxy brained of an idea. it makes sense!

deamon calls dodd a "deliberately inoffensive appeaser". i have listed all evidence for and against that argument Here. you decide

dodd reiterates his placement on every lynch (early on decoy which i do think is to his credit, skipping poly's because of yugi which i do think is do his detriment, and on kermit's which i think is kind of a gimme because kermit was being so brainworms that i have no opinion changes on anyone for having voted for him). deamon points out him and slam were gunning hardest for boogie and dodd kinda tagged on that, dodd responds by saying slam is dead now and "you can say that about literally anyone who votes for anyone else" which like, i think the point here is when you dont start Anything on your own it gets kinda suspicious.

dodd is def getting fighty here which doesnt say anything about him really town fights back when cornered too

doddorinski wrote: I'd again love to see any kind of proof that isn't sour grapes or fitting someone's definition of "useful" when I've contributed more than most of you.

then dodd basically says "hey if we're not gonna lynch boogie pick someone else" which is not a great look in the "im coming up with original ideas" department, and then he does a full effortpost that he did while i was writing the FIRST part of my Dodd Deep Dive so i hit Preview on that post and was like "fucking. goddammit"

conveniently tho the effortpost doesnt have a lot i need to comment on. its basically the same opinions hes already hard. jace and irina are new, deamon's playstyle is annoying but like neutral-ish read, boogie bad, gianni bad. like this is a long post with a lot of words but it says very little that dodd hasnt said previously.

in the end he votes for goose, and that is that, on stuff i currently have, on dodd. im gonna let this post rest and do conclusions in a much shorter post lmao

TLDR because jesus christ no one should have to read all that (but also please do i spent literal hours of my life on it):

basically dodd has gotten scummier in my eyes as time has gone on. i do genuinely think he jumped on the decoy train at the right time to be a good look on him (after evidence was presented but before the train was clearly out of the station), but his behavior since then has been not great. he avoided the poly train (and while he says thats only because yugi wanted to hammer, 1. we dont know that thats true and 2. if it is at that point it would be very clear it was poly or no lynch anyway so its not like he'd be suspected for hammering) and then seemed to parrot slam's opinions very closely, and immediately after that slam died and now he's arguing that we should listen to slam's opinions (which are also dodd's, apparently) because he was town? and also that since slam suspected boogie that means boogie's obviously scum?? that's Super sketchy.

all of that said!!

i have a much more basic and simple reason to suspect gianni right now. him purely lurking is also kinda suspect but its possible he just doesnt have time to be here so i wont hold that too against him, but also lynch all lurkers etc. all of the stuff re: dodd could be a combination of unfortunate coincidence and poor play compared to the much more simple thought process of "this isnt how id expect the game to be set up", so.

i am withholding my vote for the moment since both parties have votes on them and i dont want to push either too close yet, we still have ... i think 39 hours from this moment. so like, continue 2 discuss things in the meantime, i will absolutely vote when my mind is made up.

(also for the record if either of them flips scum that basically exonerates the other in my eyes. obviously bussing your scumbuddies is a valid strategy but doing so when there are (presumably) only two scum left And the town still has a pretty strong numbers advantage would be very dangerous and very stupid, especially because i dont think gianni is the Only valid target for dodd here. if dodd and gianni were both scum i'd expect dodd to pivot to someone else, maybe irina or yugi.)